21 Cachinnations

1. Anonymous Said,

   I would comment at more length, but you seem to have pretty well covered the same points that stuck out to me. There is a distinct difference, that some do not seem to recognize, between trying to expunge the whole idea of Christmas (which some do want to see occur) and the respectful recognition that a lot of people celebrate several holidays over the next two months.
   
   We have an AFA radio station here in Houston, and I'll listen in on occasion. But never during the lunch hour, when they have a round-table like discussion between the president of AFA and a couple of others. The vitriol I hear, so evident and so blatant, saddens me too much to bear.

   Posted on 11/14/2006

    
2. Meg Said,

   A good word. Hey, I want to know if you have any insight on the two questions that I've posted recently on my blog. I'd love to hear it is you do.

   Posted on 11/14/2006

    
3. Moderator Said,

   I hate Best Buy. I've only gotten lousy, lousy, lousy service there.
   
   Happy Xmas.

   Posted on 11/14/2006

    
4. Douglas Said,

   ----------------------------
   ... Best Buy considers the use of "Merry Christmas" to be disrespectful."
   
   Ummm... that's not what they said. And that's libel. Best Buy actually said that it wanted to be respectful to all people who celebrate the different holidays.
   ---------------------------
   I must be missing something here. If Best Buy decides that in order to be respectful to people of other religions, they must avoid using the greeting, "Merry Christmas" then doesn't that mean they consider such a greeting to be disrespectful to people of other faiths? Isn't that what the AFA just said?
   
   Doug

   Posted on 11/14/2006

    
5. Anonymous Said,

   But that's not the point. Best Buy is not actively or positively making a statement about saying "Merry Christmas," they are making an active and positive statement about saying "Happy Holidays." Can you infer that they consider saying Merry Christmas to someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas as being disrespectful? Sure, you could. But that's an inference, not a statement.
   
   For my money, more disrespectful than saying "Happy Holidays" to a Christian is Best Buy or any other retailer saying "Merry Christmas" to me. They don't know anything about Christmas or Jesus. They don't say "Merry Christmas" out of a sense of reverence or holy joy; they say it because they are happy I dropped some cash at their store. That's disrespectful.
   
   AFA knows that Best Buy isn't actively trying to offend anyone. They are actively trying to do the opposite: they are trying to be respectful to all of their diverse clientele. But AFA wants to stick their fingers in their ears and yell and pretend that everyone in America is a puritanical fundamentalist Christian who wants to slather all the good Christian businesses in our Christian nation with our Christian money. And it's not even a dishonorable means to an honorable goal. Their goal is fraudulent and disrespectful. They do no service to Christ by making Christians onerous to non-believers.

   Posted on 11/14/2006

    
6. Anonymous Said,

   By the way, good to see you here, Doug! I'll be back over at Five Cent Stand soon. Hope you're well.

   Posted on 11/14/2006

    
7. Jenn Said,

   They just want to be politically correct as long as they make their bottom line. Holidays Schmollidays.
   
   MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

   Posted on 11/14/2006

    
8. Douglas Said,

   "But AFA wants to stick their fingers in their ears and yell and pretend that everyone in America is a puritanical fundamentalist Christian who wants to slather all the good Christian businesses in our Christian nation with our Christian money."
   
   I don't take it that way at all, and neither do my fairly secular, lesbian neighbors, who forwarded an e-mail to me expressing similar outrage.
   
   There has been over the last 50 years a concerted effort by some groups to strip any explicitly religous references from public discourse, leaving (as some have put it) a "naked public square." Nativity scenes used to be a very common acknowledgement of the Christian heritage that has shaped this country. The are all but extinct these days. There is a reason for and a history behind the secular legal holiday of Christmas coincideing with the religous holiday of Christmas. Many people regard the Merry Christmas greeting to be one of the last public acknowledgements of the heritage that gave us this legal holiday. They are dismayed that after centuries of use, this greeting would fall by the wayside because of political correctness gone amok.
   
   "But that's not the point. Best Buy is not actively or positively making a statement about saying "Merry Christmas," they are making an active and positive statement about saying "Happy Holidays.""
   
   Numerous stores have been forbidding their employees to use Merry Christmas out of cultural sensitivity for the last 5 or so years. It is well documented that they think the greeting is offensive to non-Christians and want a more inclusive greeting. For crying out loud, last year Lowe's tried calling Christmas trees holiday trees. How insane is that?
   
   The good news is that Jews and Muslims by and large recognize that this PC excising of religous references from the public discourse isn't in their best interests either. After all, since when is cultural amnesia in anybody's best interest? As one Jewish writer put it, "After all, if mention of Christmas can be muted, can Passover or Ramadan be far behind?"
   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10561471/site/newsweek/
   
   And as my fairly secular neighbor champions, the next time someone says "Happy Holidays" to you, wish them a "Merry Christmas."
   
   Doug

   Posted on 11/15/2006

    
9. Anonymous Said,

   RIGHT ON DOUG...
   And personally, I can't stand by and let my favorite holiday of the year be "blahed" and mashed with every other holiday. Why does everyone have to ruin a perfectly good tradition like "Merry Christmas" just to make everyone happy...after all, when you try to make everyone happy, who really is happy? Political Correctness makes me want to pull out my friggin' hair. I don't want Christmas to turn into Xmas or Happy Holidays or Winter-mas and neither does AFA. What's the harm in informing people of a Corporations intentions? People can then make up their own minds whether to support the store or to boycott no matter what the issue.

   Posted on 11/15/2006

    
10. Anonymous Said,

    So, Xannas, if I understand you correctly, a store like Best Buy that doesn't say "Merry Christmas" gets boycotted, but a store like Wal-Mart that recently reversed its policy to say "Merry Christmas" gets your money. The contention being that Wal-Mart is inoffensive to Christians, or is more Christian themselves, and therefore more worthy of our money. This would be the same Wal-Mart that employs sweat-shop labor in China, pays its employees below a living wage, forces increases in government welfare spending, wages price wars with independent businesses for the express goal of closing them before raising their own prices, makes political contributions to help change laws so that they can continue to expand, and contributes to suburban sprawl which consumes vast amounts of natural resources. Somehow, them saying "Merry Christmas" to me doesn't make them magically acceptable.
    
    But my point is not choosing Best Buy over Wal-Mart. My point is that no business has Jesus, Christianity, or Christmas at heart or in its interests, and saying "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays" doesn't make it so. Boycotting a business for not saying it or rewarding a business for saying it makes absolutely zero sense. You may not want Christmas turned into Happy Holidays or Xmas, (more below), but I don't want Christmas turned into Santa Claus and consumerism by the soul-less business world. So I don't care what they say to me and no business is more "Christian" than another based on its greeting.
    
    As for Xmas, it's actually a very traditional expression of the word. It stems from the Greek word for Christ, (Chairos), the first letter of which is a Chi, or X. For the bulk of Christian history, simply using an X was a way to denote that a person was a Christian. It's not disrespectful at all. I'm a minister and I frequently use Xmas and refer to myself as a Xian. It's simply an abbreviation.
    
    Now, Doug, as usual, you make some excellent points. There is a concerted effort to denude the public arena of anything Christian. That certainly applies to Christmas. There is no doubt that the scarcity of nativity scenes is a result of that effort. And I agree that it is wrong. Christmas is a national holiday that recognizes that our country was founded upon Judeo-Christian values. (Obviously, I'm not arguing that those efforts produced a Christian nation or that those values were lived out by our people or founders, but they were the principles nonetheless.) And you're right that there is maybe nothing on Earth more absurd than calling a 'Christmas Tree' a 'Holiday Tree.' That's just stupidity. What other holiday uses a tree as a central symbol this time of year? It's obviously a Christmas tree.
    
    But the fact remains that Christianity is not the only religion that celebrates a major holiday this time of year. That's why it's known as the 'holiday season.' And, as I've said, there is an effort to strip Christianity from the public sector. But the real answer to a Jew, Muslim, or other that feels left out of the public arena is not to make Christians felt left out as well. I would love to see a menorah on display during Chanukah. I would hope that we could be a little more creative and a little less paranoid than to insist that it be placed right next to the nativity scene, but there's no reason that it shouldn't be displayed. That's the principle on which this country was founded respecting religion: the freedom to practice as you are lead. Not the freedom from coming into contact with anyone else's religion at all. That's foolishness.
    
    So again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't say "Merry Christmas" to each other. I certainly hope we will! I'll be wishing you all a Merry Christmas, and I hope you'll wish me one as well. What I am saying is that we can't make shopping decisions based on the greeting that a store gives us. Not one of them is Christian.
    
    "Numerous stores have been forbidding their employees to use Merry Christmas out of cultural sensitivity for the last 5 or so years. It is well documented that they think the greeting is offensive to non-Christians and want a more inclusive greeting."
    
    Unchallenged. It's true. They're also coached to wish that we "have a nice day" on our way out the door. The reality is that they don't care about the rest of our day at all. But it makes them seem more friendly and culturally sensitive to our desire to be greeted and wished well on our way. And the fact remains that saying "Merry Christmas" to someone who isn't a Christian very well could be offensive. What if they wished a Happy Ramadan to us on our way out of the store? We would choose how to respond, and I would hope that we would choose a peaceful response, but we could well take offense. The point is that businesses are not making the decisions about how to greet people, (whether that be Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays), based on a love of Christ. They are doing so with an eye to their bottom line. That goes for all of them. You don't honestly think that Wal-Mart changed its policy back to saying "Merry Christmas" because they felt convicted by the Holy Spirit, do you?

    Posted on 11/15/2006

     
11. The Cliff Said,

    I think Cach has a point. And I'm definantly not one to point out when Cach is right ( I seek to point out the opposite on a daily basis).
    
    Question: Does the fact that a secular, money-hungry, institutionalized business saying 'happy holidays' insult Christians??
    
    Answer: NO!! (and if it does then you don't know the Jesus that I know and read about daily in scripture)
    
    However, saying 'Merry Christmas' may just insult a Muslim or a Jew.
    
    So as followers of Jesus Christ, shouldn't our goal be to reach out to those around us in love, and not to force a secular business to confess Christ just because it's a 'tradition'?
    
    Traditions change, just as time changes, and people change. This nation, though some say was founded by Christians, was founded with the idea that no matter what one believed they would be free to believe and worship how they wanted. That means that if an Athiest wants to not worship anything, she's welcome to, or if a satan worshiper wants to worship satan, he's free to. There's nothing we can do to stop them. The same goes here, we can't expect people to proclaim Christ (which is what saying "Merry Christmas" would be doing) if they aren't followers of Christ. That is against everything that this wonderful nation stands for and is built on.
    
    So, i'll continue to say "Merry Christmas" to everyone i meet. Just like I say "God Bless You" when someone sneezes, but i never, NEVER expect someone who doesn't follow Christ to greet me in the same manner...
    
    in fact sometimes i feel slightly insulted when people us my Lord's name in vain, by refering to it in a secular holiday. Most of the time i wish the name of Christ would be taken out of the most secular, commercialized, money-hungry day of the year. That would be the Truly American thing to do.

    Posted on 11/16/2006

     
12. Seth Ward Said,

    I think it is kind of funny that they use "Holiday" (Holy- day) and they won't use "Christmas” They have no problem slopping up a huge statue of good old "Saint" Nick or having a big Thursday (Thor's day) blowout sail down at the furniture mart.
    
    It is culture. Come on. If you ask me, we as Christians are mostly to blame for all this backlash and BS. If we could go back and get rid of all those "Jesus is the reason for the Season" banners, bumper stickers, pins, and logos we would probably be saying "Merry Christmas to our Atheist neighbors and they would cheerfully reciprocate with "And a happy new year"
    
    When I will really get ticked is when they ban the Charlie Brown Christmas special.
    
    Or maybe, pretty soon, Santa Clause will just be "Clause" Instead of Happy Holidays it will "Happy" and maybe we will even get rid of all those days named after Norse gods and just call every day "day"
    
    I know I'll sleep better at night.

    Posted on 11/16/2006

     
13. The Cliff Said,

    Good Point Seth!! I hope you have a good ...day today!

    Posted on 11/16/2006

     
14. Chaotic Hammer Said,

    Happy Festivus, everyone!

    Posted on 11/16/2006

     
15. Anonymous Said,

    You have made some really good points...
    
    No business has Jesus, Point taken...but some can be more Jesus-minded. Why can't I choose to support such a business to show my support of their decision. Why does that make no sense! That's how corporations think...monitarily!! Chick-fil-a is a great example! Love the chicken, by the way!! How many people are offended with Chick-fil-a when they close on Sundays or because they give away Christian-themed toys in their kids meals? If people ARE offended, they don't have to buy the product (isn't that like boycotting?) And yes, for Best Buy to decide to say "Happy Holidays", they are making themselves more acceptable to more people.
    
    My point is, that the AFA is only trying to inform people and a person can make his own decision what to do with the information. I'm not saying that I'm going to boycott Best Buy or any other store that doesn't say "Merry Christmas" to me. I just don't like seeing the phrase "Merry Christmas" go along the wayside just to make the minority of people happy. I DO want to reach the world for Christ, but I don't see how saying, "Happy Holidays" to someone is going make them say, "Oh, Wow...those Christians sure are cool. I want to be one of those!"
    
    This is such a big issue to me, not the Christmas thing but the stripping of Christian culture. I just makes me sad and I want to do something about it... The "Merry Christmas" to "Happy Holidays" is such a small issue in the grand scheme of things, I think AFA just wants to find some way to do something, too...
    
    So with you, I will continue to wish people "Merry Christmas". I will continue to send out my End of the Year Update Jesus cards cause I love it!!! I love Christmas and everything about it.
    
    Thanks for the thought provoking post!
    
    Xannas

    Posted on 11/16/2006

     
16. Anonymous Said,

    Thanks, Xannas, but not quite. AFA recently added this to their page on Best Buy's greeting policy:
    
    "Best Buy is blocking emails! Please call their corporate office and ask for Chairman Schulze to express your displeasure at their 'Anti-Christmas' policy. The number is 1-612-291-1000."
    
    The AFA isn't just trying to inform people. They are issuing calls to action and are intentionally provoking people over this. No, they don't call for a boycott, but the whole bent of their perspective as gleaned from the website is that Christians must support businesses who pander to us and avoid businesses that don't. And that's foolish.
    
    Chick-fil-a is a wonderful business. They were founded by a Christian and he makes every effort to run an ethical business. But there is no such thing as a Christian business. 'Christian' is a person - not a thing. Chick-fil-a sells chicken. It doesn't matter that they close on Sunday or give away certain toys. They are a chicken-seller, not a Christian.
    
    You are perfectly free to shop wherever you want to! That's my point! The AFA shouldn't be barking about trying to convince people otherwise based on a holiday greeting. I think the things I pointed out about Wal-mart would be much stronger reasons not to shop somewhere rather than how they choose to greet people during the holidays.
    
    Christians saying "Happy Holidays" to non-Christians isn't designed to make us seem cool. It's a show of respect. It's not even something we should consider because it may win someone over to checking out Christ. It's simply that we as Christians should be respectful and peaceful in all situations.
    
    But the second to last thing you said there was the one that really caught my eye. I'm delighted at the fading of "Christian culture." Culture is not Christian. When Jesus can be reduced to something as common as culture, we've missed him entirely. In the recent past in the American South, we have lived in cities and towns where everyone went to church because "that's what you do." We've been Christians because "everyone else is." Christian culture is nothing less than death to Christianity. It is, was, and always should be countercultural. I don't want someone to say "Merry Christmas" to me out of courtesy. If being a Christian doesn't cost us anything, it isn't worth anything. It cost God everything to send Jesus; we can't just allow it to become a part of our culture. That's what Constantine began and the church has suffered for it ever since.
    
    Being a Christian means something. It sickens me to see Christ reduced to a slogan on a t-shirt or bumper sticker. (Especially when it comes in the form of a stolen corporate image that has been twisted into something Jesus-y.) Jesus isn't my "homeboy." I don't go to church because it's a "good thing to do," or because I care what my neighbors think.
    
    Christian culture has become a voting block in our country. It has lead Christians to do such things as believe that a life of comfort and health is the reward of being a Christian. Or that Jesus wants us to pursue 'security.' Or that war is just fine with us. Or that some people are to be shunned because they're "sinners."
    
    We do not live in a Christian world. We live in the world. The majority of people in America and elsewhere are not Christians. And even for those who claim the name, remember Jesus saying that not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord!' will be recognized by him.
    
    When Christianity and Culture get together, Christianity always loses. That's why any business wishing me well on the occasion of the birth of our Lord and messiah seems just a bit tainted to me.

    Posted on 11/16/2006

     
17. Anonymous Said,

    So...am I the only one who's ever worked retail around Christmas?
    
    The last two years I worked at Godiva Chocolatier in Hot as Hell, Arizona. Always around Christmas we'd get in the holiday chocolate boxes and holiday decorations. They were decorated red and green with jingley bells on them. We had chocolate santas in dark, milk and white chocolate. We also carried Chanukkah boxes (they had blue ribbon and dreidels on them).
    I was never ever offended when asked to say happy holidays rather than merry christmas.
    
    Frankly, Christmas/CHanukkah/Kwanza has just been subsumed into American Civil Religion to me. For all intents and purposes, Dec. 25th is Happy Holiday-Day for retail. Just like the Fourth of July is Independence day and etc. It's just one more thing that we as Americans have accepted...example
    
    Holy Book: The Constitution
    Messiah/Martyrs: JFK, Abraham Lincoln
    Temple/Church: The White House, The Lincoln Memorial
    High Holy Days: July 4th, Happy Holiday Day, Memorial Day
    
    Get over it. If you want to say Merry Christmas, just say it. As long as you're ok with a Jew telling you Happy Channukah and an African telling you Happy Kwanza.
    
    There are really more important things to get upset about. Like Darfur.

    Posted on 11/16/2006

     
18. Framed Said,

    I think we have to face the fact that Christmas in this country is commercial. It has nothing to do with our religion or lack thereof. How each of us choose to celebrate the season is very personal. The whole issue seems very unseasonal. I am not going to be offended if anyone chooses to wish me "Merry Christmas", "Happy Kwanza", or "Happy TomKat Wedding Day" (ok that's stretching it) for that matter. It would be thrilling to have good wishes for whatever reason. So I'd rather get a "Happy Holiday" with a smile from Best Buy than that snarled out thanks I received from Burger King today. So, whatever your preference, have a great December.

    Posted on 11/18/2006

     
19. Douglas Said,

    "As long as you're ok with a Jew telling you Happy Channukah and an African telling you Happy Kwanza."
    
    Q: What African is going to wish me Happy Kwanzaa? A: None. Kwanzaa is an American holiday, not an African holiday.
    
    Cach,
    
    In response to, "You don't honestly think that Wal-Mart changed its policy back to saying "Merry Christmas" because they felt convicted by the Holy Spirit, do you?" No, I don't. I think they changed it back because they saw that they were actually offending more people by secularizing the Christmas season greeting and that is bad for business. However, I don't necessarily think this is bad. When it comes to keeping the focus of the Christmas season on Christ, it helps to keep Christ in the little things. When businesses consider it good for the bottom line to follow the PC lead and denude the Christmas season of any reminders that this is really a religious holiday that we are celebrating, then that is a great loss for our culture. Letting the PC folks run amok and ban store employees from saying Merry Christmas doesn't make our culture less materialistic. It only helps in making it moreso.
    
    "I'm delighted at the fading of "Christian culture." Culture is not Christian. When Jesus can be reduced to something as common as culture, we've missed him entirely."
    - I guess you and I view culture quite differently. I view culture as the common practice of the people. The loss of Christian culture is directly correlated to a loss of faith. I would never be "delighted at the fading of Christian culture." I also believe that this loss of faith is accelerated and becomes more entrenched when children are raised in a secularized faithless culture. That is why my family makes very concerted efforts to desecularize the culture my children are raised in.
    
    Doug

    Posted on 11/19/2006

     
20. Anonymous Said,

    Thank you, Doug, for saying so eloquently the point I was trying to type...

    Posted on 11/19/2006

     
21. Anonymous Said,

    Fair enough, Doug. I didn't explain myself overly well. When I speak about Christian culture I do not believe it to be authentic Christianity. There is a huge difference between the shared spirit of a Christian community, (more along the lines of what you're describing), and the passively accepted norms of a society with a history of Christianity. It's been some time, (if indeed it were ever true), since American culture had anything to do with authentic Christian faith.
    
    "The loss of Christian culture is directly correlated to a loss of faith."
    
    Not if that culture is a knock off of authentic faith and therefore an impediment to it. I would certainly hope that every Christian would do their utmost to raise their kids in an environment of faith. (That is, unless they interpret that to mean sheltering them from the world to such a degree that those children lose the ability to touch and reach the lost around them.) I certainly plan to raise my children in a home and community of faith. But that is very different than the pseudo-Christian culture that goes to church so the neighbors won't talk, doesn't drink alcohol because it's evil, shops only at the local "Christian" bookstore, votes for the people who talk they way they are told to like about abortion and homosexuality, and only associates with other "Christians." That's not Christianity - it's a sham. And I don't lament its passing. Though many in older generations, (and some younger people raised mostly in the American South), mourn the tendencies of the rising generations to shun the culture and traditions of our parents, I see it as an opportunity and a reason to be truly hopeful that authentic faith can spring from the ashes of what came before.
    
    And back to the point of this post: a store saying "Merry Christmas" is not a mark of authentic faith. It is a business sucking up to Christians' dollars. I desperately want for us to have a Merry Christmas. I just don't think that has anything to do with shopping though. I think it has to do with how we greet each other and treat our guests. How we pass on the Christmas story to the younger generation. How we imitate Christ in our lives. How we share what we have beyond what we can 'spare.' How we make the unwelcomed feel at home. Frankly, how we love each other.

    Posted on 11/20/2006